| Author | Message | ||
     dv |
I got a mm 212hd with some philips el34 tubes and the tubes have started to rattle pretty much lately so i'm thinking about changing the tubes. I read that the JJ el34L should be good but i also heard from a friend that the svetlana sed tubes would be really great. So i wonder if anyone know what i should chose? | ||
| mike kaus |
Either would be a good choice. Just do NOT get any marked SVETLANA as they aren't really Svets. They are re-marked sovtek cr$p. If it is a 12ax7 version, be sure to bias a little on the cool side and you'll be fine. I personally prefer the JJ's just because I seem to get longer life from them and they sound good. The Good svets say SED and have a syrillic C on them. | ||
| bluepill |
hi mike is this guy bullshi$$ing, what are sensor svets?? http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Svetlana-EL34-Qua d-Matched-NEW-tube-tubes-valve-valves_W0 QQitemZ5863243367QQcategoryZ50598QQssPag eNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem | ||
| Mike Kaus |
They are sovtek built tubes that are IMHO crap. We (I think) are all aware of the moose and squirrel tubes that New Sensor has under the Sovtek name but he also somehow(yeah, money> bought the naming rights to Svet, Amperex, and Tung Sol, to name a few. These are NOT the same tubes. Beware Will Robinson! | ||
| bluepill |
thanks mike!! I am currently getting my hd212 130/65 serviced, and that includes new Svetlana 6L6 valves at $280 for 4 ($australian). After reading through this ultra cool site, im now tooled up to ask the service tech 2 questions 1) did you have to make any resistor changes/mods for the 6L6's? 2) why are these valves sovteks  believe it or not, he is replacing the original valves!! thats gotta say something for the most under-rated amp out there, also when i took it to band practice instead of my Laney LC30, and the DRUMMER says "that sound f&*king great!" | ||
| mike kaus |
Did you say you are putting 6L6's in your amp? At 700v on the plates, be prepared for fireworks. If your amp has el34's and you put 6l6's in it, the plate voltage is WAY too high for 6's. E34L's are the only thing that should be put in that amp. IF you have one of the newer amps that CAME with 6L6's, that's different. Mike. | ||
| bluepill |
ho mike i rang the shop where my amp is getting serviced and they said 6L6 are the right valves for my MM, and that even though EL34'S will physically fit, you cant use them....i am now very confused!!! either way i pick up my amp tommorow so i will spend some time playing on high power setting in the shop and see what happens.....i dont know what the original valves where, but i have asked them to keep em, so i ill check them first. will post on monday...by the way, shes born about 74 | ||
| mike kaus |
Does your amp have a 12ax7 PI tube? If so, they are full of it. It should then have 6CA7's or EL34's. I think maybe your SHOP should look at this site on the shematics page and ID WHICH amp you have first. If it has the little tube, they're full of horse hockey. Mike. | ||
| carl. |
what mike said.... and i live in australia. | ||
| mike kaus |
There are SOME of the MM's that did use 6L6's, but you have to ID which amp you have and whether it has a ttube chart inside. There are other ways too, but let us know-we wouldn't want you putting the wrong tubes in. If it's built for EL's, use them. | ||
| bluepill |
hi mike yeh my amp has the little 12ax7 PI tube in a metal case (high or low power?) but the funny thing is that when i picked up my amp, i looked at the old tubes that they were replacing and the where 6L6's. they looked like a mix of brands!! probably replaced blown tubes from before i bought the amp if there the wrong type!...i havent spent too much play time on this amp, but i have done a couple of gigs with it and it sounded good (the tubes were lighting up the sky though). so im guessing that the shop just thaugh that if 6L6's where in it than that is right.. anyway i cant ID my amp right now as its still at the shop (will call them tommorow) also thanks to this site i spotted the re-labed sovteks (big S on package and svetlana written on the tubes - not SED). The shop out source there amp repairs and said they werent aware of this...im not sure what to think but they havent called me back since saturday (now thursday). by the way i tried the amp with the svetlana SOVTEKS, and it sounded flat and crap.... i will updat you guys ASAP, and once again thanks for the great info heres a picture of my baby, a little hidden though [IMG]http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b275/b luepill/e4ecf14f.jpg[/IMG] | ||
| mike kaus |
Silver badge, 12ax7, that amp is SUPPOSED to have EL34/6CA7 tubes in it, NOT 6L6's. The 12ax7 is used as a phase inverter. Some older "S" tubes were actual Svetlana tubes, just all the new stuff is actually Sovtek built. I know it's rather confusing but it depends on WHEN the tubes were built as to where. If you get new production, you are looking for SED though. Mike. | ||
| bluepill |
ok mike i just talked to the amp tech, and he is going to put electro-harmonix 6CA7 in my MM...he tells me this is the only brand that make the 6CA7's, what do you think?? If i dont like em I will get some JJ EL34's down the track. I was a little dissapointed with the discussion...he wasnt aware of the sovtek renames, after i told him about the "svetlana sovtek" he told me that heaps of session musos use the svetlana's (sovteks) and love them, and that he is aware of the SED C's, but doesnt believe the price difference is worth it...so after I told him what I have read here he just basically told me his not really interested, its up to your ears (which the svet sovs sounded crap to me). oh he also said that the reason my amp sounded better with the old tubes is that they just dont make tubes the way they used too...perhaps sovtek dont hey? the worst part is that when i told him i can send links with the tube info (this site), he said dont bother, hes been retubing amps for years....i hate this narrow minded outlook!!! your never too old to learn! and learning i have done, youd think being a licensed electrician, and an electronic engineer id just do this myself....i think its like the old motor vehicle syndrom, you basically dont want to fuck up something that you rely on, so you take it to the "experts".....ps - im working on my car this weekend i will let you guys know how the electro harmonix sound | ||
| bluepill |
just a quicky, there so much confusing stuff out there on tubes...just had a look on ebay and found these electro harmonix 6ca7 tubes http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ELECTRO-HARMONIX- 6CA7-MATCHED-QUAD_W0QQitemZ5843817995QQc ategoryZ109837QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting now check ou the nice pink 6ca7 markings on the electro harm site http://www.ehx.com/ehx2/Default.asp?q=f& f=%2FCatalog%2F29%5FTubes%2F6CA7EH are the ebay ones rip offs? | ||
| mike kaus |
I just think the black screening is the older ones. Gawd, that pink is horrible! Anyway, the EH stuff is sov stuff so you're just going to have to make a choice yourself. Your tech is "kind of" right in that EH is the only ones who call their tubes 6CA7's. They supposedly are making them "like the old ones"--NOT! I don't usually opinionate TOO much but a pig with perfume on it is still a pig. If you could find REAL 6ca7's from the late 60's early 70's, that's one thing but in new production, I don't trust ANYTHING connected with SOVTEK. Sorry if I sound a little biased(huh-get it!) but I installed too many sovtek tubes and had them rattle, lose bias integrity, or just plain short out too soon. I had a brand new set of 6L6's in my own twin at one time that shorted out and took some things with it when it went(and I hate working on my OWN stuff!). Their track record really isn't very good out in the world. Yes, they make a LOT of tubes, yes, they put a lot of them in new amps, yes, they replace a lot of them with something good. If you go with the EH's, make sure your "TECH" biases them PROPERLY and don't pull that crap of 1/2 volt at point "Y" stuff. Remember, there are 700v on the plates so the normal bias amounts like for a MArshall are wrong. Measure each tube separately so that you can see if they are balanced. Also, don't run them any hotter than about 23mA idle current PER TUBE. He is right in one respect, they don't make them like they used to. Mike. | ||
| vcamargo99 |
I'm not 100% positive, but I have never seen a Sovtek 6CA7. EH tubes are made in the same Reflektor plant as Sovtek though. That being said, I've had my EH6CA7's in my HD130 for close to year with at least 6hrs per week playing time and (so far) no negative issues. The Phillips tubes that the EH's replaced looked very similar to these. Mine are biased to 23mA with no red plating and seem to be hanging in there fine despite the 700+V and THD Hot Plate attenuator. I've had my share or crappy Sovteks, but also have had MORE problems with JJ's. I agree that they just don't make tubes like they used to! | ||
| bluepill |
i really dont understand why they cant make tubes the same as they used too...i mean youd think manufacturing and QA standards would have been raised in 30 years...especially if there is such a demand for quality! i will prob get my amp next weekend by the looks of it, and im hoping the EH sound better than the 6L6's the tech put in it. so other than the reflektor plant, where else do they manufature tubes?? and guys in australia, where do you get your tubes from?? | ||
| mike kaus |
Ok-I guess I should clarify myself. The EH tubes are not sovtek branded but are made in the same crappy plant and with their same materials. Their quality control in not as good as it was back in the day but what is. Nobody's tubes are like they were 30 yrs ago(but neiher are we). EH 6ca7's may be ok- I just have had NO luck with EH anything and even their preamp tubes sound shrill TO ME. That being said, they sell a lot of them so you pays yo' money and you takes yo' chances. To me, the REAL svet's and the JJ's are the only new production tubes that last. If you get into 6L6's, Vintage Jon likes the Ruby STR's and has good luck with them. The bias point is VERY critical on these due to the high plate voltage. If you keep them cool and bias them low, you will get better life out of ALL of them. Mike. PS-why can't they make them like they used to? Less demand means less sales and less money. I personally would pay more for the quality of an EXACT replacement of the old sylvania or GE or any of the older tubes but guess what? Ain't gonna happen. | ||
| bluepill |
ok just an update guys the amp now has the EH6CA7's in it....and its a different beast. it defiantly now sounds like a "fender" amp....but on the downside i think its a bit too twangy and responsive for my sound....i prefer a warmer mid range responce over the highs. I will be putting the JJ EL34L's in it next time, cause i think its that cross over with the marshall sound that im looking for. just a stupid question...to bias the amp, how do i open it up?? i couldnt see any fresh screw driver marks on the case screws, so im guessing the whole chassis has to come out?? I also want to know this so i can check the tech that worked on it to see if he biased it right cheers blue | ||
| vcamargo99 |
I would say you definately need to have the amp biased now that you have installed new power tubes. I have to pull the chassis out to get to the bias pot and locations to measure. You will too. Before you do anything though, you should read the giant amount of posts on the "Adjustments, Maintenance & Calibration" area on this forum, and concentrate only on taking notes or info on the HD130's with the PI TUBE. It can be deadly to mess around in something with 700+ volts. It can be learned though. I did not know how to do it, but after reading all the "cautions & warning" and "don't do's" I carefully biased all of my tube amps. Years ago, you just popped in a new set and continued playing. With todays tubes you have to be careful to make sure they are baised properly from set to set. If you don't do it, take it to someone who can along with the instructions from this site, so that they don't try to bias it like they would a Marshall. This will be the only way you can "for sure" know that it was done correctly. You can look back there and see if the power tubes are red plating or if they sound kinda dull, but only a meter will let you know for sure. Others, PLEASE chime in and correct me if I'm wrong. As far as the "Fendery" sound goes. Mine always has sounded that way too, no matter what tubes I've used. Though it does have a powerful "classic Marshally" sound when I use my Les Paul and lots of gain. It's just Leo Fender's design, vision and sound coming out of all early MM products. The guitar designs, sounds, etc, all sounded like Fenders (though with a broader range, I think). You might want to try cranking a bit more midrange than usual. My classic Marshalls have always had more mids than what my Fenders put out. My HD130 falls somewhere between them both, but closer to Fender. | ||
| Mike H |
Did someone say tubes? Here's my $.02, if you are interested. I posted this previously under a different string, maybe you've seen it? Anyway: I've tried both the JJ E34L and the 6CA7EH. I used the JJ's for several months and have had the EH's in for several months as well. I've found that the 6CA7EH have a bit more bass, a bit less mids, and maybe a bit more highs. The JJ E34L have tighter bass, a bit more mids, and a bit smoother highs. Both seem to break up at about the same rate -- unlike what you might expect when comparing 6CA7 to regular EL34 rather than E34L. I don't think either tube sounds bad, and the differences are minor, but I think I probably prefer the JJ E34L because they have a smoother sound, more musical. But, I like the look of the fat bottle EH 6CA7 tubes! Both tubes seem robust and able to take the high plate voltage OK. | ||
| bluepill |
cool stuff guys! im still playing with settings to get the tone i want...i have a laney LC30 that I gig with (a very uder rated amp IMO - check em out) and i basically crank the mids on that too, so i have been doing this with the MM but still havent nailed it. I am now searching for a cheap TS-9 re-issue, and will do the mods myself. I played with an original tube screamer in the shop where my amp got serviced and it sounded cool. my ibanez fat cat doesnt really cut it like it did with the old tubes. the new tubes have really changed the tone (so bloody bright and crisp!), but im sure once i find the right setup all will be cool. |