| Author | Message | ||
     Chuck Bryden (cbryden) Username: cbryden Registered: 12-2006 |
About a year ago I blew a speaker in my 410 65. The first one in line for juice from the cable that connects to the chassis. I replaced with a 10" 8 ohm rated at 50 watts. All went well until last night - at a very loud gig- the amp fizzeled out! I was convinced i hurt something serious the way it died. The loud jam didn't lend itself to much troubleshooting. The light was still on but I thought it was totally dead. I feared the OT. I always bring a spare amp though so i finished the gig with my mesa-boogie. Today, in the quiet of my home, i popped the chassis, looked for melted burnt stuff. Nothing. I did about the only diagnostic i know for the power section - I made the same reading i would make to check the bias... surprise - there was a voltage there! That seemed promising. I shut everything down, and connected another speaker from another amp - walah! I was back in business. It seems as though the speaker that first gets connected out of the amp blew. For some reason it blew to the point that the connection to the other three speakers was so weak you could barely hear the amp, even when cranked. By bypassing all the wiring and hooking the speakers directly, they seem to work, except for that one blown speaker... though they don't seem that "strong". Only the speaker from my other amp seemed "strong." I figured I was stressing things so I stopped experimenting with this and ordered a pair of new eminence rajan cajun rated at 75 watts each. I might get another pair of another type of speaker to widen the sound or another pair of the same if I really like the sound of these. Is my observation correct that the first speaker in the series gets the brunt of the power? Would there be any gain of wiring the 4 speakers like sets of two in a 210hd and then using both speaker output jacks? One benefit might be easily going from 2 speakers to 4 speakers depending on the size of the room being played in. Has anyone done this? Does it help anything? In any case, when i put those new speakers in i'll report how they sound with MM amps. | ||
| Mike Kaus (mm210) Username: mm210 Registered: 05-2006 |
Does that amp still have the impedance switch for 4 and 8? I know it wouldn't b e"original" but if I was going to replace a; the speakers anyway, I'd get 16 ohm speakers, wire them all in pararllel and switch it to the 4 ohm side of the OT. That's just me of course. In theory, the first speaker doesn't really get the brunt of the load but I guess that as the first speaker in a series parallel circuit, it might disipate a LITTLE energy so that the rest get SLIGHTLY less but I think the effect is very slight. Sounds like spot on bad luck to me. I remember the MM amps using some pretty weak speakers anyway in SOME of the amps, soI think it just got freaking old and died! Like I said, If it DOES still have the 4-8 switch, that's what I"D do. Mike. | ||
| Bill Traylor (bozzy369) Username: bozzy369 Registered: 02-2008 |
i was going to say the same thing as Mike,but I tend to get disagreement when I mention changing anything electronic wise to a music man amp.I think Mike is right on the money with this call,the 16ohms speakers would help this amp in many ways,the loss in volume will be made up in tone .Bill | ||
| Chuck Bryden (cbryden) Username: cbryden Registered: 12-2006 |
By the time you guys suggested the 4 16 ohm speakers I already had my order in for the 2 ragun cajun speakers. So, I am still wired up the old way. I installed the speakers tonight, and the 2 new and 2 old MM work. Since I have to do everything whisper quiet in my apt I won't be able to report on how the effect the sound until at least Thursday (my next gig, but I have several gigs of breaking in ahead of me!) See another recent post of mine when I found "Terry Loose" scrawled on a piece of masking tape on one of the old speakers! I'll let you know more as the speakers break in, incase anybody else is considering eminence as replacement speakers. | ||
| Chuck Bryden (cbryden) Username: cbryden Registered: 12-2006 |
I want to replace my speaker cable with one slightly longer (current one is just long enough to get from bottom speaker of 410 cab to the chassis.) I'd like to use this amp as a cab sometime when appropriate - (unplug from music man chassis, plug into other amp head.) Is there any reason I can't strip a 10 or 16 gauge household extension chord and use that cable for this purpose? (probably to just add another foot to it)? The connector to the chassis is a nice right angle plug that can be opened up an re-soldered. Is this safe for the amp? Is speaker cable BASICALLY 10 or 16 guage wire? | ||
| Mike Kaus (mm210) Username: mm210 Registered: 05-2006 |
YUP-that will work fine. Just make sure that you have tip to +. 10 gauge is overkill but won't hurt a thing. I personally like the curly q cords that they put on hair dryers! THey neaten things up and look kind of cool, AND can take a lot of current. | ||
| Chuck Bryden (cbryden) Username: cbryden Registered: 12-2006 |
Thank Mike. BTW, I promised a review on the Rajun Cajun speakers. I got for a mostly clean or slightly overdriven sound, but I play loud. The Rajun Cajun's handle it just fine. They seem to handle bass fairly well too - the music man hasn't made them fart out, and, I recently aquired a Fuchs Overdrive Supreme built usic man 75-HD head. That has very big 6l6 fenderish low end the speakers are handling that fine too, even at ear splitting volume. ps. Even though it is sort of sacrilege, after I get more attuned to the fuchs in a music man's body, i'll post pics and a write up of that too. I know guys get into the little nuances of each speaker, and this one is brighter than that one, etc, but really I feel these are just good, strong sounding speakers that are fairly effiecient, and I haven't really gotten them to break up with loud volume yet. I've been gigging at least weekly with them since december, so i'd hope they would be mostly broken in. Thumbs up on Rajun Cajun speakers. | ||
| Alex H. (alex_h) Username: alex_h Registered: 07-2007 |
I've heard only good about the Emi RC's. Anyone know of a model in the Eminence Legend line that would be similar? | ||
| Chuck Bryden (cbryden) Username: cbryden Registered: 12-2006 |
Not a year since I started this thread - I fried one of the rajun cajuns on a gig last night. The voice coil didn't die perse , but it got that loud blown out sort of sound. I'm guessing the cone will be torn when I pop it out of the amp? To continue the gig on break I hit the standby, took turns disconnecting speakers, test, repeat. I went the rest of the night with 2 hooked up. And, once again, it was the one that is directly connected from the amp! That's the third speaker i've blown in that position.  Now, I do play loud, and I crank the bass.. but the MM is 65 watts and the fuchs i sometimes plug in is 50 - and i never max them out. Rajun Cajun rated for 75. I'm surprised. a 75 and 3 35 watters oughta handle either of these amps. I wonder if I should investigate some other ways to wire these 4 speakers? Or try to find a 200watt handling pile drive to put in that position or something? Anyone here have any ideas? | ||
| Mike Kaus (mm210) Username: mm210 Registered: 05-2006 |
That's weird. I have no explanation for that being the one to always go. I guess the complete parallel wiring system would take that out of the loop but you already have the other speakers so that's out. Hmmm. I guess the larger wire in the heavier speaker could account for some extra impedance at a certain frequency but you'll need somebody a whold lot smarter than ME to figure it out. I take it this means that you only replaced the ONE speaker originally that was blown? | ||
| Bill Traylor (bozzy369) Username: bozzy369 Registered: 02-2008 |
Mike, I think you are on the right trail,tube amps have a great push/pull system to everything,so if one of those speakers were weaker the stronger would take abit more load.kinda the same thing with the tubes.so remember kids always replace things in pairs/quads.Mike you also bring up another point,speaker wire vs impedance,wonder how some monster cable would do in these amps ?just a thought. | ||
| Chuck Bryden (cbryden) Username: cbryden Registered: 12-2006 |
Hey guys, Yes, each time the speaker blows I only replace one. Also the wire that runs from that speaker to the other speakers doesn't look like the thickest wire in the world. Maybe if I replaced a pair AND beefed up the wires running between all the speakers it would be better? | ||
| Mike Kaus (mm210) Username: mm210 Registered: 05-2006 |
I'm not a real fan of monster wires. Plain old zip cord is the best simply because it's cheap and PLENTY heavy. I think I said this above(and not ashamed of it by the way) I steal the curly power cords off of old hair dryers for speaker cord. They look cool and are nice and heavy. I just can't see spending money on overpriced wire from places like monster-IT'S JUST WIRE. These audio guys come around talking about their $100.00 power plugs and $200.00 audio cables. Just don't get it. | ||
| Chuck Bryden (cbryden) Username: cbryden Registered: 12-2006 |
Hey guys - Since my total wattage was below the one rajun cajun and I had 4 speakers hooked up total, I thought it might be a defective speaker. I contacted eminience, shipped them the speaker. Apparently some glue came undone from the voice coil for reasons that can't be known. They are replacing it free of charge. The turnaround at their shop was really quick too. It only cost me the shipping to them. Not only are the Rajun Cajuns great sounding speakers with Music Man Amps, but I think this is a sign of them standing behind the product and doing right by the customer, so consider this a double recomendation for Rajun Cajuns and anything from the Eminence line. | ||
| Mike Kaus (mm210) Username: mm210 Registered: 05-2006 |
Glad to hear it. Eminence is a fine company, as shown by the fact that they've been around so long. Also, their stuff is REALLY reasonable. |