| Author | Message | ||
     eric_ellman |
hello gents. i'm new to posting on this forum, but i've been a lurker here for a while, and a long time music man enthusiast! --- so as the title suggests, i'm restoring a MM- one thirty head, (12ax7 model). i wanted to let you know of my progress and my problems... perhaps get some advice from y'all along the way here. i know alot of this has been covered in these threads, but much of the info is outdated by now... links change, prices change, parts change, etc. at any rate... here goes: TOLEX: i'm recovering with a black TRAYNOR style tolex, which is the closest thing i've found to the original... it's just a touch closer in color, texture, and shine than the standard fender tolex that's available. GRILL CLOTH: fender style is the closest i've found. CORNERS: ernie ball (with lip) - $9.98 for all 8 of them (musiciansfriend) HANDLE: ernie ball "our best" - $9.95 (musiciansfriend) ...this is the right size, but the metal caps are in a different shape than the originals, more squarish... so i MIGHT re-plate my original caps if they aren't deemed TOO rusty by the nickel plating plant. KNOBS: fender 1-10 skirted... not perfect, but as close as they come. TUBES: JJ el34Ls are my definate power tube choice... but for my 12ax7 phase splitter, i have some questions. #1 - how much does this tube affect the sound... i mean, should i get a NOS mullard tube in there, or just something that functions properly? if the sound is affected, i'm willing to spend $ and get the best. #2 - is a phase splitter the same thing as a phase inverter? the reason i ask is... i have heard that you should specifically get 12ax7s with balanced triodes for phase inverter use... and i wanted to know if the same goes for this "phase splitter" tube. i currently have a "marshall" labelled tube in the 12ax7 spot, so lord knows who made that thing... i want it OUT! FACE PLATE: not the badge, but the actual face plate that is attached to the chassis with the inputs through it, etc... ANY CHANCE of finding a new one of these or a repro? mine is OK, but a little bent up... and i want this amp to be a museum piece when i am through!!! THE OBLIGATORY CHASSIS STRAP NIGHTMARE: of course mine are rusted as hell, of course none of the fender ones are the right size, we all know this stuff. i'm either gonna get as much corrosion off as possible and get them nickle-plated at a plant, or take the pieces to a fabrication plant and see what they can do. i saw a user on here a while back that was gonna have a go at fabricating some suitable replacements... anybody know if this ever happened? how can i get ahold of this guy?!!! i'm desperate here!!! i guess if nobody has done it yet, i'll take a shot at having some made up... perhaps i'll have them do a small run of them that i could pass on to other MM users. hopefully this kinda thing won't be too costly. at any rate... thanks to the creators of this forum... it's a beautiful thing, and i hope to become a more active part of it in the future... please help me out with these questions guys!!! i'm dying to get this thing done... and post BEFORE & AFTER shots haha! take care, ~eric e. | ||
| mike kaus |
PI doesn't affect sound MUCH but you do need a quality tube in there. I don't like any of the chinese stuff there but the JJ's are fine or if you can find a Sylvania or RCA, that/s cool too. PI and splitter- They are the same thing, just dif people calling them dif things. I really don't feel balanced triodes are the thing since they didn't even care back in the day. They came out of a case caddy and they stuck 'em in. After seing some of the way they were biased back then, I'd be surprised if they even looked at the tubes to see that they weren't 12at7's or something else. | ||
| eric_ellman |
mike, thanks for the knowledge! i'll probably rock one of the JJs then. i can order it with my power tubes. also, anyone have any experiences with the JJs that you can get with red glass or blue glass instead of clear? i mean... i think they would look pretty great glowing... but would there be problems seeing what's going on in there? like... "I GOT A BLUE GLOW HAPPENING HERE!" ...umm, it's ALWAYS blue? | ||
| cerebral |
let us know how the retolexing goes. i have been thinking of doing the same to mine (410) wondering how much of a bear it is | ||
| Anonymous |
I was told that the Groove Tubes GT-6CA7GE was actually designed to work with Music Man amps. I've got a duet in my 212 Sixty-Five and they sound great. | ||
| mike kaus |
You must have been talking to a Groove Tube dealer! Nobody's tubes were "designed" to run with a certain amp. They might be nice but they are still probably Sovtek under the skin> | ||
| eric_ellman |
[quote/] let us know how the retolexing goes. i have been thinking of doing the same to mine (410) wondering how much of a bear it is [/quote] looks like it's gonna cost 40 bucks to get my head retolexed from a local guy. 10 bucks worth of tolex, 30 bucks for the labor. i can definately live with that price. i needed it no matter what though, the tolex was hammered pretty bad. also, it was originally a white pinwhale covered head, and a previous owner painted black over it... such a bummer!!! it's gonna cost you a bit more money to cover that combo, but i figured i'd tell you how my project is going, so you have a ballpark figure. CHASSIS STRAP UPDATE: i found a local nickel plating plant that does "RESTORATION PLATING" (that's what they call it when rust is involved) and will deal with really small orders and walk-ins like me! they have a minimum price of 40 bucks, but they said plating my chassis straps, handle caps, and corners can be done at that minimum. again, a price i can live with. [quote/] I was told that the Groove Tubes GT-6CA7GE was actually designed to work with Music Man amps. I've got a duet in my 212 Sixty-Five and they sound great. [/quote] that's cool that they worked out for you man, there's never a right or wrong in cases like this, we all have different ears. i just personally stay away from groove tubes because they are simply a tube re-labeler, as opposed to a tube manufacturer... meaning one batch of tubes is made in russia, one is made in holland, one is made in china, etc. at this point in my life i'm just far too fussy about EXACTLY what i'm getting to head over to McGuitar Center and buy a set of groove tubes. i've been into eurotubes.com lately... great dudes, great product, great service. | ||
| eric_ellman |
carl, you got yourself a couple beauties there! funny you mention those colors in reference to "50's kitchen" ...my wife and i have actually re-done our kitchen in lemon-lime 50's style! we also did our dining room like a 50's diner... robin's egg blue table with chrome edging, salmon pink walls, boomerang print curtains, chrome canisters everywhere and a chrome baker's rack full of vintage tube radios. at any rate... not to sound like a salesman here... but i got my JJ tubes from eurotubes.com in like 24 hours!!! so fast that i had the tubes in hand before the money for my order was even taken out of my bank account! incredible! | ||
| carl. |
i love the 50's stuff man, its always looked great, lots of chrome and pastels, my parenst just bought a kitchen setting and that sort of inspired me even more, and we have a cream valve radio sitting on it! So dont forget those pics man, it will help me and i hope to help you too. Take Care, Carl, Australia. | ||
| eric_ellman |
yes, chrome and pastels have become a way of life for us! i've been toying with this other idea... when we move into a bigger place, either in the basement or a spare room i wanna set up a 50's barber shop station. one chair, mirror, jar of barbasol w/ the black ace comps floating in it, sink basin with the dip in it where you put your neck, some old playboy mags on the table... the whole 9 yards. we generally cut our own hair and sometimes friends' ...so i always wanted that! at any rate... in MUSIC MAN news... i took some before shots of all the parts and whatnot... just hafta resize them a bit. i stripped and sanded down the headbox today, getting it ready for tolexing. in the back of my mind i keep thinking i should just try to tolex it myself... save a few bucks and it might be fun (every dollar counts around the holidays). i'm not sure yet what i will do. i decided to stay true to the original music man look in this restoration job, but i did wanna have ONE little signature thing to make this amp it's own... so i decided to swap the grill cloth out for fender SILVERFACE style, with the turquoise strips in it. definately adds a little PIZAZZ, but still looks classic. in a previous post i gave props to eurotubes.com for their lightning fast shipping and easy ordering... well similar kudos shall now be directed towards MOJOTONE.COM - got these parts practically overnight as well! this restoration job is putting me in touch with alot of great folks, and continues to be a positive experience. i have a feeling when it's over i'll be setting my sights on some other battered music mans (music men?) take care all. | ||
| eric_ellman |
oh yes, another question... inside the headbox there is some metal window screen stapled to the ceiling. any idea what this is for? was this stock? | ||
| carl. |
yeah the metal fly wire type stuff is meant to be there, i am certainly no amp tech but i think its shielding to reduce hum. When you say torquise is that the silver sparkle with the blue OR green in it, i get them confused, but i have never seen the green on the amp so that would be really cool. Another simple change is the knobs, something you can toy with because it inlvolves no modding, you could go barrels, or chicken heads, but ofcourse fender skirted are the genuine look. Cant wait for the pics man. PS i have a hairdresser friend who has an old chair and its a feature in his study, red leather and intricate metak work - it looks mickey mouse (grouse)! | ||
| carl. |
yeah the metal fly wire type stuff is meant to be there, i am certainly no amp tech but i think its shielding to reduce hum. When you say torquise is that the silver sparkle with the blue OR green in it, i get them confused, but i have never seen the green on the amp so that would be really cool. Another simple change is the knobs, something you can toy with because it inlvolves no modding, you could go barrels, or chicken heads, but ofcourse fender skirted are the genuine look. Cant wait for the pics man. PS i have a hairdresser friend who has an old chair and its a feature in his study, red leather and intricate metal work - it looks mickey mouse (grouse)! | ||
| eric_ellman |
ahh... thanks for clarification on the fly wire. that makes sense! i'll probably go black and chrome on the barber station... red and chrome can look nice, but a BIT over the top for me! OH... noticed you're from australia - do you by chance eat vegemite? i've always wanted to try it. take care man... here's a link to the grill cloth i'm using: http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/cgi-bin /mojotone/6301007.html?id=GUNoEE8g, | ||
| carl. |
i used to eat vegemite like it was going out of fashion, but i leant that it was owned by KRAFT who is own by cigarette giant PHILLIP MORRIS, so now i eat MIGHTY MITE an Australian made and owned version. You can get about 5-6 different brands, but vegemite is famous because its been around for 80 years. Basically they are all extracts of beef or vegetables. The trick is to have it on toast, spread thin with a good ammount of butter. I see americans having taste tests on TV with dollops on crackers, no wonder you think its tastes like sh*t. So yeah Eric, definately try it! Hear from you soon, Carl. BTW that grill cloth is sexy - kills the blue sparkle - way more retro vibe.  | ||
| eric_ellman |
carl... thanks for the tip on vegemite/mighty mite... it's cool that you are conscious about what you are eating and the companies who make it. i also choose not to support phillip morris and a few other sick multi-national corporations. now there's another thing i need to know though - you said they are all extracts of beef or vegetables... is there any kind you could recommend to me specifically that is strictly vegetable based? (no meat or gelatin) ...as my wife and i are vegetarians. let me know! as for the grille... yes, the second i came across that cloth, i knew it was the one. i saw a fender rhodes speaker covered with that cloth before and i've been dying to find it for sale! mojotone.com hooked it up for me! in other news, i think i'm gonna start looking for a smaller music man combo to run along with my half stack. i wanna put it on an AB box, and only kick the combo on during solos... almost like a live boost pedal. i really love the music man sound. | ||
| carl. |
hhhhmmmmm you'll have to read the ingredients, i only eat mighty mite which is water, yeast extract, potato maltodextrin, modified maize starch, white vinegar, salt, sugar, mineral salt, emulsifier, colour, niacin, thiamine, riboflavin, folate and vegetable extract - so i guess its vegetarian. its also gluten free its made by "three three's" and by the way you can use 'mites in cooking - meatloaf, patties (rissoles we call them), with scrabbled eggs etc. have fun, carlos. HEY MUSIC MAN "MM" ... MIGHTY MITE "MM", my friend just pointed that out to me the other day. | ||
| eric_ellman |
sounds good to me, mighty mite it is! hopefully they carry it at the international market here in buffalo... or else i'll have to mail order it! i'll post a review once i get to try some. | ||
| Scott Hopkins (scooter) Username: scooter Registered: 06-2007 |
hey eric, Ive been restoring a RD100 head and had the strap ends and the chassis straps re-plated (nickel) here locally in western pa.. They were pretty rusty and beat up but these guys did a beautiful job. Although pretty pricey $80 this old amp is definately worth it. music man- they are the sound!!! scooter |